Should We Stay or Should We Go Now

[George Lewter]

Our Insight-live glaze database is not used by many members. I just deleted all members who have not signed in or viewed any recipes since January of 2017. That leaves us with 17 ''active" members. Of those only 11 have posted one or more new recipes since joining.

When we started with Insight-live in 2012, it was the only serious, recipe calculating website available. Glazemixer and glaze21 came along with a few of the capabilities that we have in Insight-live, but weren't really competitive.

Glazy.org is now on the scene, and it may be a better choice for our needs. It has a much more user-friendly interface, but the proof is in its capabilities. How does it stack up against the formidable features of Insight-live? Please go to their free website and sign up, and then report back here with your impressions, and whether you think it would be a better fit for our members. 

Next July we will discuss our options and decide whether or not we want stay as we are, switch to glazy, or discontinue with glaze databases altogether. The double system of having a group here on C6P as an intermediary between us and I-L is a management headache. Tony never put together a suitable forum for us to discuss our glaze research within Insight-live, and not much comes back for discussion here either. Collaboration isn't really happening, which begs the question, "Why are we doing it, and is the software and website worth the time and money involved, with so few active users?"

This is an important issue within the cone6pots network, and deserves some serious consideration. 

DISCUSSION IS IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER - - LATEST REPLY AT BOTTOM OF LAST PAGE

[Donna Kat]

Just to let you know I visit here and use the resources but I seldom sign in because I don't think I have things to contribute. I think it needs dues and reminders of when to pay them. It would also be nice to have a facebook connection. I do send people here from facebook Ceramic recipes/formulas. 

[Jeffery Dauvin]

thanks George will do and get back 

[Marina Reijsmeijer (Kleierij)]

In preparation for the discussion in  July  I did some tests. I tried to export a few selected recipes and import those into my personal insightLive account. I found that

- it actually exported all 885 recipes to the xml file

- once imported the recipe lost the name of the owner (since there is only one owner in my account :) and

- it lost all photo's associated with a recipe (the photos can be exported but the link is lost)

- and the typecodes are no longer defined (it should be easy to redefine)

- the creation and modification dates are all set to the import date ie today

To be investigated: materials 

Conclusion it is not straightforward to keep your recipes even if you have a personal account

[Donna Kat]

I love my PC version of insight and store my recipes there. They can be uploaded to the online version which I have done but I just never use them there. I tried doing the group once but my recipes are stored with a code different from the group and apparently what I uploaded was too much (I overdid things). I am not great at following instructions.  I always thought it would be easier to have questions motivating how glazes were grouped if that is possible. So perhaps "what is the perfect clear at ^6 electric for standard clays" And yes, I did intend for it to be that specific. If there were a Facebook page with links to the various topics, that would also help. I like glazy a lot but it really isn't set up for group discussions. Perhaps if again there were links that connected glazy to this site?

[George Lewter]

The Insight-live database records the last date that you signed in, the last date you searched, the last date you saved anything. So there is a good record of how much use we are getting from the database.

If we leave insight-live, I believe we would leave our database intact as one of the public reference batches, which I assume is accessible from an individual account.? We can talk to Tony about this. If this is true then you should be able to view and copy everything from there to your individual recipe list.

[Donna Kat]

Yes, as I said, I don't sign in to cone6pots and I do my search with google or just go to the sections I am interested in here. I keep promising myself that I am going to use the insight but I was told I was not using it properly when I first started using it and I have been shy of it since then. I am not sure how as a group we are meant to use it. That is why I ask if there is any way we can have topics within insight. I use it regularly on my PC but that is for reformulating the glazes I have and adding to the data base of glazes I keep. 

[Marina Reijsmeijer (Kleierij)]

I understand that 17 active users may not be worth the time and money needed to maintain this group. 

My question is: what does everybody expect to find in this group?

My answer would be: I like to share recipes and test results with other potters and discuss those.

Do we need InsightLive to do this?  It does not work well as a discussion platform. I have never received any reaction on any of the recipes I published. I do need IL however to 'translate' non-european recipes into recipes with materials I can actually buy here. I think the functionality to have two recipes side by side and tweak the materials to match the chemical analyses is  unique. 

Would facebook be a good platform? I am a member of several facebook groups. Some of them have lively discussions on glazes. The problem is, I can never find anything back later,the 'search' is hopeless. Only the Files are useful as archive. The discussions are mostly lost in time. I much prefer the format of this forums Cone 6 Glaze Testing & Reporting 

Both in IL and in Glazy it is easy to find back a recipe (by name or author) that was discussed in a group or forum. It seems a bit of an overkill to use IL merely as an archive. I think IL is too complex for only that function. Personally I enjoy the rich functionality, but there is quite a threshold for new users. With a recipe I need a materials database. Both IL and Glazy may provide that.

I think we would want a discussion platform and an archive/db where the discussed recipes can easily be recorded and found. I do not know a tool that can provide both. Maybe the group could propose a db linked to the discussion platform and some standards on names or formats.

I will start to look at glazy and report back.

[Donna Kat]

The group "Ceramic Recipes/Formulas" is made for sharing recipes, discussing materials, converting for various countries materials, etc. The problem as you say is that Facebook is becoming less and less friendly for archiving posts. We do however have a google drive location were we store things so that helps and basically new discussions of old topics is common. The reason I am so fond of this site is that the various topics are kept available and accessible. I think it would be the perfect match to glazy, wiki, and the facebook group I mentioned. 

[Marina Reijsmeijer (Kleierij)]

It would be great if we could somehow keep access to the database.

To my dismay I saw that the test also shows that  my recipe (see attached photos) also lost the colorants in the process of export/import. I have not yet been able to verify why this happened and if this happens with all recipes but it does not make me confident it is a flawless method. A batch method is pretty useless if you have to compare every recipe with its original.

I keep my own records on my PC, a spreadsheet and a photo album, but most comments are only in InsightLive.

George Lewter said:

The Insight-live database records the last date that you signed in, the last date you searched, the last date you saved anything. So there is a good record of how much use we are getting from the database.

If we leave insight-live, I believe we would leave our database intact as one of the public reference batches, which I assume is accessible from an individual account.? We can talk to Tony about this. If this is true then you should be able to view and copy everything from there to your individual recipe list.

[Marina Reijsmeijer (Kleierij)]

I like that group. I never knew there is a google drive, just found it now. What is the wiki you refer to?

Still it would be great to have something where one could search for ' cone 6 floating blue glaze on white clay ' or the like and then find photos, discussion, firing schedule, recipes, glaze properties.

Donna Kat said:

The group "Ceramic Recipes/Formulas" is made for sharing recipes, discussing materials, converting for various countries materials, etc. The problem as you say is that Facebook is becoming less and less friendly for archiving posts. We do however have a google drive location were we store things so that helps and basically new discussions of old topics is common. The reason I am so fond of this site is that the various topics are kept available and accessible. I think it would be the perfect match to glazy, wiki, and the facebook group I mentioned.

[Donna Kat]

Glazy is trying to implement the discussion but it is more comments left on a glaze. If more people used it, it might turn into a discussion. The Pottery Wiki should be found on glazy....  Yes, one of the reasons I can never find it is that it is part of glazy - https://wiki.glazy.org/

However, I really like the format here. I just don't use it as I should because I am always busy with the Ceramics Group.  That is why I am hoping we can do some kind of facebook group that links here so that it is easier to keep track of what is going on and to keep things active here.

[Chantay Poulsen]

Hi George and group,

I am here after being gone for a year.  Unable to pot for medical reasons.  I really like Insight  and will probably go back to using it when the weather warms a little.  Glaze room is in the garage.  I have to agree with the others.  I think a facebook page for discussion would really help to direct people to the site and the Insight connection.  I realize there are other Glaze groups on Facebook but I don't personally use Facebook and I am sure there are others like me.  Went on for the first time and a year to look at family photos.  If Cone6pots has a Facebook page it will bump it up in the search results when someone does a search for a glaze recipe or problem.  I know a lot of people like Glazy when looking for a glaze, but I think the people who come to Cone6pots are more into experimenting and learning about the chemistry of glazes.  I think there are more people out there that would like to use Insight, they just dont know Cone6pots is here.  Instagram is huge..A Cone6pots Instagram page would also direct people here.  Could a link be set up from here to Instagram.  User could post photos which would pull in more people.   

-Chantay